[Updated 2022/05/19 with model from UGreen]
[Looking for less-expensive USB-C options?]
Intro
Here is a growing list of Thunderbolt 4 (TB4 or TBT4) docks and hubs intended for desktop/stationary use. Many are based on the Gorilla Creek Godzilla Creek reference PCBs that were co-designed by Intel and Goodway, disclosed in July 2020 and certified in November 2020. All are based around the Intel Goshen Ridge JHL8440 chipset and are backwards-compatible with Thunderbolt-3 (TB3 or TBT3) and USB-C systems.
Compact TB4 Hubs/Docks (20)
Because many of these units are almost identical, I’ve added a column indicating the equivalent ODM model. Unless otherwise indicated, all models include these base features:
- detachable ~0.75m TB4 cable
- 100-110W barrel-jack style power supply
- 3x downstream TB4 ports (40Gb/s; 15 watts)
- PC/Mac compatibility
- Monitor outputs:
- Most brands do not list all compatible monitor modes so double-check with the manufacturer to ensure compatibility with your specific monitors. For example, the Goodway DBD1010 lists 4K120 but not 5K60 support, but some re-brands like the Anker A8398 list 5K60 but not 4K120. Both models actually support 4K120 and 5K60.
- Although 3 TB4 ports may be present, only 2 can be used for monitors at a time
- most TB4 laptops will support: 1x 8K30, 1x 5K60, 1x 4K120, or 1x 1440p144, 2x4K60
- some TB4 laptops will support: 1x 8K60, 2x 5K60, etc.
- most TB3 laptops will support: 2x 4K60 or 1x 5K60
- most USB-C laptops will support: 1x 4K60 or 1x 4K30
| Vendor, Model & Price ($USD) | Host Power & Location | Equivalent ODM model | Additional Features & Notes |
| Alogic Blaze TB4H3TB (~$190) | 40-60W, front | CE-LINK TB4-HUB01 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 7.5W) – US/UK/AU/EU AC/Mains adapters included |
| Anker A8398 PowerExpand (~$200) | 40-85W, front | Goodway DBD1010 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 7.5W) – power button |
| Caldigit TB4 Element Hub (~$240) | 60W, left | – 4x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 7.5W) – 150W PSU | |
| CE-Link TB4-HUB01 (ODM) | 40-60W, front | – reference design – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) | |
| Club3D CSV-1580 (~$190) | 40-60W, front | CE-Link TB4-HUB01 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) |
| DeLock 64157 (~230€) | 40-60W, front | CE-Link TB4-HUB01 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) |
| Edimax TD-405BP (~$200) | 40-60W, front | CE-Link TB4-HUB01 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) |
| Goodway DBD1010 (ODM) | 40-85W, front | – reference design: Gorilla Creek – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – power button | |
| Guuanchen GC-C03 (~$150) | 60-85W, rear | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – 120W PSU | |
| MicroSolution TB41010 (~$200) | 40-85W, front | Goodway DBD1010 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – power button |
| OWC TB4 Hub (~$180) | 45-60W, front | CE-Link TB4-HUB01 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – K-lock |
| Plugable USB4-HUB3A (~$190) | 60W, front | CE-Link TB4-HUB01 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – USB-C->HDMI 2.0 adapter included |
| Plugable TBT4-HUB3C (~$180) | 60W, front | CE-Link TB4-HUB01 | – No USB 3.x port – USB-C->HDMI 2.0 adapter included |
| Purplelec PEC-TBH01 (~$160) | 60-85W, front | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – 120W PSU | |
| QGeeM TB4 Mini (~$150) | 60W, right | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – power button – 120W PSU | |
| Sonnet Echo HB5-TB4 (~$200) | 40-85W, front | Goodway DBD1010 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – power button |
| SSI SI-419TB4 (?) | 60-96W, front | – 4x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 12W) – 150W PSU? | |
| Tripp Lite MTB4-HUB3-01 (~$235) | 40-60W, front | CE-Link TB4-HUB01 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) |
| Winstars WS-UTD33 (?) | 60-95W, front | – 3x USB 3x (10Gb/s / 10W) – 150W PSU – 2.5Gb/s Ethernet | |
| Zikko PD85 M-TBD4085 (~$230-270) | 40-85W, front | Goodway DBD1010 | – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – power button |
Specialized Compact TB4 Hubs/Docks (3)
Except when otherwise indicated, all models include the same base features as the compact TB4 hubs/docks listed above.
| Vendor, Model & Price ($USD) | Host Power & Location | Additional Features & Notes |
| Hyper TB4 power hub (TBD) | 50-96W, front | – integrated 100W GaN power supply – detachable AC/Mains cable – no USB 3.x ports |
| OWC Ministack STX ($279+) | 60W, rear | – K-lock – M.2 NVME 2280 SSD bay – 2.5″/ 3.5″ SATA drive bay – 150W PSU |
| SSI SI-452TB4 ($172 MOQ 1K) | 60-85W, front | – 4x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 12W) – KVM with physical switch (2x TB4 inputs) – charges one laptop at a time – supports 8K60 |
Full-size TB4 Desktop Docks (29)
Unless otherwise indicated, all docks include:
- detachable ~0.75m TB4 cable
- 135W barrel-jack style power supply
- 3.5mm TRRS combo audio jack (Realtek ALC40xx chipset or similar)
- 1Gb/s USB-based Ethernet (RealTek 8153 or similar)
- Some docks include PCIe-based Intel 2.5GbE instead-of or in-addition-to the Realtek
- UHS-II SD Card reader
- PC/Mac compatibility
- Monitor output:
- Most brands do not list all compatible monitor modes so double-check with the manufacturer to ensure compatibility with your specific monitors. For example, the Goodway DBD1110 lists 4K120 but not 5K60 support, but some re-brands like the Brydge Stone list 5K60 but not 4K120. Both models actually support 4K120 and 5K60.
- most TB4 laptops will support: 1x 8K30, 1x 5K60, 1x 4K120, 1x 1440p144, or 2x4K60
- some TB4 laptops will support: 1x 8K60, 2x 5K60, 3x 4K60, etc.
- most TB3 laptops will support: 2x 4K60 or 1x 5K60
- most USB-C laptops support: 1x 4K60 or 1x 4K30 (some docks with built-in HDMI/DP may enable 2x 4K60 or 2x 4K30)
| Vendor, Model & Price | Host Power & Location | Monitor Outputs | USB & TB4 Data Ports | Additional Features & Notes |
| Accell TB4 Dock K10B-002G (~$50) | 60-96W, front | 1x DP 1.4 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 | – 2x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 1x USB 2.0 (7.5W) | |
| Adaptertek TB4 Dock (ODM) | 60W, front | 1x TB4 1x DP 1.4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K60 | – 1x TB4 – 1x USB-C (10Gb/s / 7.5W) – 2x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) | – CFast2.0 card-reader – older TB3 dock can be updated with TB4 interface module |
| Alogic Blaze TB4D3TB (~$280) | 60-96W, front | 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 5K60 OR 1x 4K120 | – 3x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 1x USB 2.0 (7.5W) | – based on Godzilla Creek ref PCB – power button – K-lock – US/UK/AU/EU AC/mains adapters included – 2x 4K30 via USB-C |
| Anker Apex A8397 (~$350) | 60-90W, front | 1x TB4 2x HDMI 2.0 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 4K120 OR 1x4K60+2x4K30 | – 1x TB4 – 1x USB-C (10Gb/s / 20W) – 2x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 2x USB 2.0 (2.5W) | – power button – optional stand – triple monitor – 120W PSU – same as Belkin Connect Pro |
| Belkin Connect Pro INC006 (~$400) | same | same | same | same |
| Brydge Stone Pro TB4 (~$350) | 60-90W, front | 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 5K60 OR 1x 4K120 | – 3x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 1x USB 2.0 (7.5W) | – based on Godzilla Creek ref PCB – power button – vertical stand – TB4 cable not included – 2x 4K30 via USB-C |
| CalDigit TS4 (~$360) | 98W, rear | 2x TB4 1x DP 1.4 supporting 2x 5K60 OR 1x 8K60 OR 1x 4K144 OR 1x 1440p240 | – 2x TB4 – 1x USB-C (10Gb/s / 20W) – 2x USB-C (10Gb/s / 7.5W) – 5x USB 3.x (10Gb/s 7.5W) | – K-lock – 3x 3.5mm audio (1x trrs front, 2x trs rear) – Intel i255 2.5GbE – 230W PSU – teardown |
| Dell WD22TB4 (~$470) | 100W, left | 2x TB4 2x DP 1.4 1 x HDMI 2.0 1x USB-C supporting 2x 5K60 OR 4x 4K60 | – 2x TB4 – 2x USB-C (10Gb/s / 7.5W) – 1x USB 3.x (5Gb/s / 10W) – 2x USB 3.x (5GB/s / 7.5W) | – K-lock – power button – no SDCard or audio – older Dell WD19 docks can be upgraded with TB4 module – charges some Dells at 130W – 180W PSU |
| Fujitsu FPCPR401BP (~£220) | 60-90W, rear | 1x TB4 2x DP 1.4 1x HDMI 2.0b supporting: 2x4K60+1x4K30 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 5K60+1x 4K60 | – 1x TB4 – 2x USB-C (10Gb/s, 4.5W) – 2x USB 3.x (10Gb/s 4.5W) – 1x USB 2.0 (12W) | – No SDCard – K-lock – power button – triple monitor – Intel AMT/VPro – 170W PSU – Intel i225 2.5GbE – Mac compatible but must use TB4 port for 2nd monitor |
| Goodway DBD1330 (ODM) | 60-96W, front | 2x TB4 1x HDMI 2.1 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 4K120 OR 1x 5K60 | – 2x TB4 – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 7.5W) | – K-lock – power button – 2.5GbE – 2x 4K30 via USB-C |
| Goodway DBD1100 (ODM) | 60-90W, front | 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 4K120 OR 1x 5K60 | – 2x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 1x USB 2.0 (10W) | – Godzilla Creek reference model – K-lock – power button – 2x 4K30 via USB-C |
| Guuanchen GC-B04 (~$190) | 60-85W, rear | 2x TB4 1x HDMI 2.0 2x DP 1.4 supporting: 2x4K60+1x4K30 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 5K60 | – 2x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 7.5W) | – 120W PSU – triple monitor via TB4 – dual 4K60 via USB-C – M.2 NVME 2280 SSD slot |
| Hiearcool TB4 Max 16-in-1 T4802 (~$290) | 60W, rear | 2x TB4 1x HDMI 2.0 1x DP 1.4 supporting: 4x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30+2x 4K60 | – 2x TB4 – 2x USB 3.x (5Gb/s / 5W) – 2x USB 2.0 (2.5W) | – cross branded with QGeem and Broway – power button – 2x 3.5mm audio – quad 4K60 – triple 4K60 via USB-C – DP & HDMI via DisplayLink – 150W PSU |
| Hyper TB4 docking station (TBD) | 60-96W, front | 2x TB4 1x HDMI 2.1 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 4K120 OR 1x 5K60 | – 2x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 1x USB 2.0 (10W) | – re-brand of Goodway DBD1330 – K-lock – power button – 2.5GbE – 2x 4K30 via USB-C |
| Intel USB4 Eval Dock | 90W, front | 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 | – 3x TB4 – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 5.5W) | – Gatkex Creek reference PCB – No audio, Ethernet, or SDCard – bare PCB no chassis – does not ship with PSU – PCIe Gen3 x1 – various debug headers |
| Kensington SD5700T (~$330) | 90W, front | 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 4K120 OR 1x 5K60 | – 3x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 1x USB 2.0 (7.5W) | – re-brand of Goodway DBD1100 – K-lock – power button – VESA mount – 170W PSU – 2x 4K30 via USB-C |
| Lenovo ThinkPad 40B00135 (~$250-340) | 60-100W, rear | 1x TB4 1x HDMI 2.1 2x DP 1.4 supporting: 4x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 4K120 | – 1x TB4 – 1x USB-C (10Gb/s / 15W) – 1x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 12W) – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) | – No SDCard or audio – K-lock – power button – VESA mounting holes – optional mount – 4x 4K60 via TB4 – 2x 4K60 via USB-C – Mac compatible but must use TB4 output for 2nd monitor – Intel i225 2.5GbE – teardown |
| Lenovo SmartDock 40B10135 (~$250-340) | same | same | same | – same as 40B00135 but adds Microsoft Azure Sphere remote management MCU and firmware |
| Lenovo Workstation 40B00300 (~$300-440) | 230W, rear | same | same | – same as 40B10135 but with workstation cable and 300W PSU |
| MicroSolution TBD110 (TBD) | 60-90W, front | 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 4K120 OR 1x 5K60 | – 3x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 1x USB 2.0 (10W) | – re-brand of Goodway DBD1100 – K-lock – power button – 2x 4K30 via USB-C |
| OWC TB4 Dock (~$280) | same | same | same | – based on Godzilla Creek ref PCB – K-lock |
| QGeem TB4 Pro 15-in-1 T4801 (~$250) | 60W, rear | 1x HDMI 2.1 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 4K120 | – 2x TB4 – 5x USB 3.x (5Gb/s / 5W) | – power button – 2x 3.5mm trs audio – 150W PSU |
| QGeem TB4 Max 16-in-1 T4802 (~$300) | 60W, rear | 2x TB4 1x HDMI 2.0 1x DP 1.4 supporting: 4x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30+2x 4K60 | – 2x TB4 – 2x USB 3.x (5Gb/s / 5W) – 2x USB 2.0 (2.5W) | – power button – 2x 3.5mm audio – quad 4K60 – triple 4K60 via USB-C – DP & HDMI via DisplayLink – 150W PSU |
| Razer TB4 Dock Chroma RC21-016901 (~$330) | 60-90W, front | 2x TB4 supporting: 2x 4K60 OR 1x 8K30 OR 1x 4K120 OR 1x 5K60 | – 2x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) | – based on Godzilla Creek ref PCB – customizable RGB (PC only) |
| Razer TB4 Dock Mercury RC21-016902 (~$320) | same | same | same | – same as Chroma model but adds K-lock and excludes RGB |
| Satechi ST-UCT4DM (~$300) | 60-96W, front | same | – 2x TB4 – 3x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) – 1 USB 2.0 (7.5W) | – based on Godzilla Creek ref PCB – K-lock |
| Sonnet Echo-DK11-T4 (~$320) | 60-90W, front | same | same | – re-brand of Goodway DBD1100 – K-lock |
| Startech TB4CDock (~$440) | 60-96W, front | same | same | – based on Godzilla Creek ref PCB – K-lock |
| Winstars WS-UTD40 (ODM) | 95W, front | 2x TB4 2x HDMI 2.0 2x DP 1.2 supporting 1x 8K30+2x 4K60 | – 3x TB4 – 2x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 10W) – 2x USB 3.x (5Gb/s / 10W) | – K-lock – 2.5 Gb/s Ethernet – triple 4K60 via USB-C – HDMI & DP via DisplayLink – 200W PSU |
Best value in Q2 2022? OWC based on sale price, Lenovo, Kensington, or CalDigit based on features.
USB4 Hubs/Docks (4)
Devices specifically marketed as USB4 hubs/docks rather than Thunderbolt 4 docks still provide a 40Gb/s link to the host PC, but without the Thunderbolt capabilities such as PCIe tunneling. So external GPUs and speedy storage arrays cannot be used. Per the USB4 specification, a true USB4 hub/dock must include at least one downstream USB4 port that runs at the same throughout as the upstream host connector. Devices without this functionality are technically USB4 endpoint devices with a built-in USB 3.x hub. See the article on the Via VL830 chipset for more info about this device class.
| Vendor, Model & Price ($USD) | Host Power & Location | Monitor Outputs | USB Ports | Additional Features & Notes |
| Hyper USB4 Mobile Dock HD583 ($139 $112 with coupon) | 85W, side | 1x DP 1.4 1x HDMI 2.1 supporting: 2x 4K60 or 1x 8K30 | – 0x USB4 – 1x USB-C (10Gb/s 4.5W) – 2x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) | – Gigabit Ethernet – 3.5mm audio – Integrated 30cm cable – USB-C port can be used for data OR a charger, not both – Does not require external power but can use 100W PD PSU – Teardown |
| Xfanic C5313A USB4 Hub Pro (~$82-102 more via Kickstarter) | 100W, rear | 1x DP 1.2 1x HDMI 2.1 1x HDMI 2.0 supporting: 1x 8K60 + 2x 4K60 | – 0x USB4 – 1x USB-C (10Gb/s / 7.5W) – 2x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) | – power button – 2.5 Gb/s Ethernet – DP+HDMI via DisplayLink – 36W PSU (optional secondary 100W PD PSU not included) – M.2 NVME/SATA 2280/2242/2230 SSD slot – Teardown |
| Xfanic C5314A USB4 Hub Basic (~$82-102 more via Kickstarter) | 100W, front | 2x DP 1.2 1x HDMI 2.0 supporting 3x 4K60 | – 0x USB4 – 1x USB-C (5Gb/s / 7.5W) – 2x USB 3.x (5Gb/s / 4.5W) – 2x USB 2.0 (2.5W) | – power button – 2.5 Gb/s Ethernet – DP+HDMI via DisplayLink – 36W PSU (optional secondary 100W PD PSU not included) |
| UGreen GreenLink USB4 CM500 (TBD) | 0W?, side | 1x HDMI 2.1 supporting: 1x 8K60 or 4K144 | – 0x USB4 – 2x USB-C (10Gb/s 4.5W) – 2x USB 3.x (10Gb/s / 4.5W) | – Integrated 25cm cable – No audio/Ethernet/SDCard – Does not require external power – Teardown |
External TB4 GPU chassis (0)
External GPU boxes provide much of the functionality of a hub/dock, but also allow adding a discrete PCIe GPU such as an NVIDIA RTX or AMD Radeon running at PCIe 3.0 x4 speeds (32Gb/s full duplex). No TB4-specific options based on JHL8440 are available as of February 2022, but Thunderbolt-3 (TB3) models based on JHL7440, JHL6540, JHL6340, DSL6540, and DSL6340 are compatible with TB4 systems. Please consult the guide at https://egpu.io/best-egpu-buyers-guide/
Monitors with built-in TB4 hubs (3)
| Vendor & Model | Price | Monitor specs | Inputs | Outputs | Host Power |
| Lenovo ThinkVision P40w-20 | $2000 -2150 | – 40″ curved – 5K2K @75Hz IPS – HDR 400 – VESA mount – 99% sRGB – 98% DCI-P3 – 1000:1 contrast | – 2x TB4 – 1x HDMI 2.x – 1x DP 1.4 – 1x USB 3.x (B-style) | – 1x TB4 daisy chain – 1x USB-C (5Gb/s 27W) – 2x USB 3.x (5Gb/s 4.5W) – 1x USB 3.x (5Gb/s 10W) – 1Gb/s Ethernet – 3.5mm audio | 100W |
| Lenovo ThinkVision P27u-20 | $710 -770 | – 27″ flat – 4K60 IPS – HDR 400 – VESA mount – 99.5% aRGB – 99.1% DCI-P3 – 1000:1 contrast | same | same | same |
| LG 40WP95C-W | ~$1800 | – 40″ curved – 5K2K @72Hz IPS – HDR 400 – VESA mount – 135% sRGB – 98% DCI-P3 – Freesync | – 2x TB4 – 1x DP 1.4 – 2x HDMI 2.x | – 1x TB4 daisy chain – 2x USB 3.x (5Gb/s 4.5W) | 96W |
Compatibility notes
Older USB-C laptops
Several vendors note that Windows PCs with regular USB-C are not supported. All of these docks will actually work on older USB-C systems but with reduced functionality. In particular, you may only get up to 10Gb/s and a single monitor working. Docks verified to output to two monitors via regular USB-C are indicated in the table. Additional monitors may need MST hubs or USB Video extenders.
Monitor adapters
Some monitors are particularly sensitive when used with TB4, USB-C, or proprietary docking stations. Whenever possible, use name-brand TB4/USB-C -> DisplayPort adapters/cables or straight-through TB4/USB-C cables from this list. If your monitor supports Thunderbolt-3 or USB-C directly, then just use a Thunderbolt-3 or USB-C cable.
Power
Most TB4 docks ship with power supplies that are unable to simultaneously power all ports at their maximum rated wattage. On-board power management splits available power between ports and prioritizes downstream devices over laptop charging. With this approach, attached hard drives, for example, won’t lose power, but the laptop may charge slower than expected when many devices are attached. Where applicable, a laptop charging rate range is provided.
Mac
MacOS lacks MST support, so many docks will only work with two distinct monitor outputs even if there are 3+ monitor ports. And in most cases, you’ll need at least one of the monitors connected to a TB4 port rather than HDMI or DP.
In the past, MacOS implemented this a device certification check via hard-coded lists in the IOThunderboltFamily kernel extension which disabled features on uncertified docking stations. Apple updates the lists via MacOS updates – so to get your Dock working, you may need to update to the very latest MacOS version and dock firmware. Some uncertified devices may not have full functionality unless console commands are entered manually.
If you have issues with your Mac, reach out to the post your findings in the comments section below.
Additional Info
Firmware updates
Early docks had issues with USB 2.0 devices. Check with your vendor for firmware updates:
- https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/n56eht/psa_caldigit_thunderbolt_4usb4_element_hub/
- https://us.anker.com/pages/update-firmware
- https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd500503-thinkpad-universal-thunderbolt-4-dock-overview-and-service-parts
Connecting monitors
If you don’t have monitors with USB-C inputs, you’ll need to get the latest generation of USB-C->DP or USB-C->HDMI adapters. For best reliability, avoid HDMI when possible.
References & More reading
- List: Publicly listed Intel-certified TB4 docks
- List: Thunderbolt approved ODMs
- Video preview: modern TB4 dock design
- PR: Allion & GoodWay announce the first certification for TB4 dock reference design board
- Caldigit Element hub manual
- Compatibility guide: Sonnet Echo 11 TB4 dock
- Unblocking uncertified TB3 devices on Mac
- PCI vs USB Ethernet in Thunderbolt docks
- Caldigit TS4 internal photos and discussion
Dan S. Charlton 
It is perhaps useful to link to the official Thunderbolt Youtube channel preview, where a hub and a dock with very familiar port placement is shown. https://youtu.be/l_mBBE4NIOE?t=31
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Thanks Benson!
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I wish there was a dock that just let me add 10gig Ethernet and Power Delivery so I could use it on my couch.
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There are docks with 10GbE. For example, the “pro” version of OWC’s 14-port dock. Another option is to use a TB4 hub, such as the Caldigit Element, and then use one of the downstream TB ports for a TB3 to 10GbE adapter. I have tried both solutions and I prefer the latter, since it’s more portable than a dock.
Specific products: I have three Sabrent TB3 to 10GbE adapters that haven’t let me down yet, and I can wholeheartedly endorse the Element hub. I have two of them, and they are great. I’m a bit less enthusiastic about OWC’s Thunderbolt Hub, which was finicky with the M1, but has been fine with the M1 Max.
I wish there was a hub that integrated 10GbE. That would be killer.
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There is the Akitio/OWC Pro dock, which i’ve bought, but it’s 10 Gbe doesn’t work with the 10Gbe port of my Qnap 872, and driver updates are none.
Would be nice if Dan would get one to strip, so i could search for the Culprit of the driver incompatibility that every once in a while Reboots my XPS9510 when disconnecting.
The cascade of USB chips and eSATA DP 1.2 is a bit wobbly, the DP port can’t connect my LG monitor as a DP partner, does get it’s 60hz HDMI input, but is not seen by the Gforce directly, which is a shame, hence its dicontinuation i think…
Its 60 W PD does keep the XPS topped up though… So the “single Cord to rule all connections” stil prevails, but i am disapointed the TS4 does not have 10Gbe, otherwise it would be the real One for All…
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Dan, thanks for this useful list!
I see some of the models are on the market for more than 6 months. Do you have an idea why they are all out of stock? Do they share common components that are very rare?
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This might be due to the global chip shortage in addition to stringent requirements for Thunderbolt 4 Certification. TB4 is pretty handy, I use it to skip over 10Gbe and go straight to 20+ Gbe. Here’s the link for anyone interested: https://chrisbergeron.com/2021/07/25/Ultra-fast-Thunderbolt-NAS-with-Apple-M1-and-Linux/
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laptop specs would seem to call for at least 100W power, why is everyone making these at 85-90W? And why are they impossible to find right now>? Under-powered for people using dual 4K monitors.
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First of all, display resolution isn’t closely correlated with laptop charger power requirements. My son’s Intel little-core (Gemini Lake) Chromebook has a 6.5W TDP processor, and the whole system gets by fine with just a 30W power adapter, even when driving big displays. This little laptop’s basic Intel integrated graphics can easily drive two 4k60 displays.
What you’re really talking about is laptops with big discrete GPUs for use with gaming and computation workloads on a workstation-class laptop, not just driving 2 4k60 displays.
As to why Apple and others stop short of 100W, there are regulatory reasons why they don’t want to build to exactly 100W, since there are fire safety requirements at higher than 100W. Apple’s largest USB-C power adapter is 96W probably because they wanted some margin to keep them on the safe side of 100W just in case.
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In addition to Benson’s comment, most laptops that ship with ~100W power supplies or specify 100W capability rarely draw 100W. More often, they draw somewhere between 30-75W depending on the battery charge level, system load, system temperature, and attached peripherals. 100W is only used in very specific circumstances. Gaming notebooks are a different story and many require 2 power supplies for maximum performance, a USB-C supply and a barrel jack style. Or a single large barrel-jack style.
If you have a laptop that behaves so differently with a 90W power supply compared to a 100W such that you notice performance degradation with 2x 4K60 monitors in particular, please share more details. Photos of a USB-C power meter inline to the system, system temperatures (CPU, GPU, other) and what applications are running would be helpful. I’d be curious to investigate further if the claim can be substantiated.
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“Note for USB-C systems: Only 1 monitor output will work on USB-C systems unless a separate MST hub is attached. ”
Can anyone explain a little more this sentence? Where that hub has to be connected? Because I was looking for thunderbolt3 docks compatible with usb-c host too, but, by almost the same prize, thunderbolt 4 gets the same performance with usb-c (with display port capabilities) host port?
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I’ll update the article with some clarifications. My understanding is that if you attach one of these USB4 docks to an older USB-C system, only one of the monitor outputs will work. But if you attach a separate MST hub [USB-C-> 2x HDMI] or [USB-C->2x DP] to one of the ports on the Dock, then you can run 2 monitors with limited resolution and refresh rates. While USB4 claims backwards compatibility, it seems these newer docks are really not intended to be used with older systems at all – and in the compatibility notes they specifically say they are unsupported. Its quite a shame.
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Getting confirmation about this would be really interesting, because I can’t find it anywhere. As much as difficult as someone trying these docks with Ubuntu or similar.
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AFAIU, with USB-C hosts that do not support Thunderbolt, the display signal is transferred from the host to the dock using DisplayPort alt-mode (repurposing half of the USB-C connector’s highspeed wires for DisplayPort instead of USB). This transfers a single DisplayPort signal which is directly routed to a single output by the dock. MST (Multi-Stream Transport) is a technique to multiplex multiple displays into a single DisplayPort signal, but this needs an MST hub to demultiplex them into separate signals for each display. I suspect these Thunderbolt hubs typically do not have such a hubs, because normally they rely on Thunderbolt’s capability to tunnel 2 distinct DisplayPort signals anyway (except docks that support > 2 simultaneous display outputs, which might have an MST hub, or could be using a DisplayLink USB video card for the extra outputs).
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In this connection, I just purchased a Club 3D Thunderbolt 4 Portable 5-in-1 Hub with Smart Power (CSV-1580), which at £119.99 seemed like a pretty good deal for a re-branded CE-LINK TB4-HUB01. I also got a CSV-1550 USB-C to triple DisplayPort MST hub.
What I wanted to do was have a one-cable switching setup allowing me to swap two ThinkVision M14 portable USB-C monitors between a ThinkPad P53 and a desktop with an Quadro RTX 4000 GPU, by either plugging the Thunderbolt 4 host cable into the P53 or into the VirtualLink USB-C port of the Quadro GPU.
If I plug the two USB-C monitors into two Thunderbolt out ports of the Thunderbolt hub, then as expected, I get both displays to output from the P53, but only one display is recognized from the Quadro. (As a side note, it seems like my mechanical keyboard doesn’t get enough power from the hub in this latter scenario.)
Now, it is possible to use CSV-1557, a bidirectional USB-C to Displayport cable, to provide video from a GPU DP out to a ThinkVision M14, provided that the other side of the M14 is supplied with power via a USB-C cable. I’ve confirmed that this works. I was therefore hoping that I could plug the MST hub into the Thunderbolt 4 hub, and thereby run the two M14s from a single DisplayPort input. But this was unsuccesful.
As a side note, I couldn’t get any M14 outputs by directly attaching the MST hub to the Quadro, either.
ThinkVision M14 supports DP 1.2, not DP 1.4. Would there be any reason to think that Club 3D’s CSV-1545 (Club3D MST Hub USB 3.1 (Gen1) Type C to DisplayPort 1.2 Dual Monitor) would work better?
I’d like to try many combinations, but my budget for hubs and cables is running thin.
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Interesting scenario. The USB-C ports on the NVIDIA GPUs are quite limited and will only do dual display with VR goggles and special software. I don’t think they were ever intended to be used to run 2 displays directly.
Why doesn’t this work?
Quadro -> DP -> MST hub -> 2x M14 monitors
I don’t know. It may be the bi-directional cable at fault. I don’t think switching from a DP 1.4 to DP1.2 hub would make any difference.
I think a better solution here is to add a Thunderbolt 3 port to your desktop PC with an add-in board. You use 2 of the DP from the NVIDIA GPU to go into the Thunderbolt board then that board will send out USB alongside 2 display streams.
Please see: https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2020/07/20/add-usb-c-with-dp-alt-mode-to-your-desktop-pc/
With this you’ll have a single cable solution to switch 2 monitors plus all USB devices like keyboard/mouse etc. all in one go.
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Thanks for the idea. I remember reading your post and seeing that option, but being spooked by the idea of shorting headers. But perhaps I should up my game and try that.
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Great to see a resource bringing info on these hubs to one place. Any reason the Caldigit Element hub isn’t listed?
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Oops I had Caldigit up there earlier but deleted those rows by accident when I separated the article into smaller hubs vs larger docks. I’ll re-add them. Thanks for spotting the error.
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Great list Dan, thank you!
Saw that Alogic‘s Blaze (hub & dock) is not in your list yet.
Currently looking for a TB4 dock after having sent back my Razer Chroma. Unfortunately, dual display was not functioning. Razer’s support response ie quite fast (within 24h even in weekend). They ask for a video on the setup to see whether all is connected properly and what kind of devices are on there, quite a good approach I’d say. However, they repeat themselves when they don’t have an answer, they blame my gear for having the wrong drivers and are unwilling to answer questions I have with regards to the dock.
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Hello Dan,
Thanks for this very interesting study.
My target setup is simple but quite rare, and i’m still looking for a solution.
Computer = Thinkpad p14s gen 2 AMD (2021, Ryzen 5850u), with a usb-c port that supports DisplayPort 1.4a up to 5120×2880@60Hz (together with USB 10Gbps and PD)
Display = 2x usb-c portable monitor Lenovo M14, 1920×1080@60Hz, consuming < 8W each
I’m looking for a way to feed both monitors using only one usb-c port on the computer side, and a usb-c dock/hub in between.
In terms of resolution everything seem to be ok : 2 x 1920×1080 is much less than 5120×2880.
In terms of hardware i guess that Caldigit, OWC, Anker, Plugable or any other thunderbolt hub could manage this.
But without Thunderbolt (thanks to AMD), it seems that the best that can be reached is only ONE usb-c video output 4K@60.
Do you know wether it is possible to get 2K@60 from TWO usb-c ports instead of 4K@60 from ONE usb-c ?
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R1, excellent question.
For non-thunderbolt systems I don’t think you’ll be able to use 2 of the TB4 ports to run 2 separate 1080p monitors directly.
However, on the Lenovo dock, you could use a reverse DisplayPort ->USB-C adapter for video and run a second USB-C cable to the M14 for power. So in total, there would be 3 USB-C cables running from the Dock to the portable monitors.
For the reverse adapters see: https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2020/05/10/bi-directional-usbc-dp-cables/
BTW, don’t blame AMD for lack of Thunderbolt. Blame Intel for making it so cumbersome and cost-prohibitive for other vendors.
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Thank you.
As a complement, using a DP->USB-C adapter, I could also bring the power from the first monitor to the second one, if the available output power from the dock is > 15W (which is not that frequent). Same number of cables but different setup.
You are right, actually i didn’t want to blame AMD and used wrong words.
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Hello Dan,
Almost the same question : using one of the TB4 hubs listed on this page, and a TB4 computer (Intel 11th gen), do you know if it is possible to connect 3 monitors as following ?
– one 4K (using a usbc-> DP cable)
– two Lenovo M14 (2K, using usbc cables)
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Yes, I believe any 11th-gen based laptop can support 4 screens total via TB4. In your case, the only Dock that supports triple displays where two of those outputs are TB4/USB-C is the QGeem model. This model will run the 3rd monitor with DisplayPort via DisplayLink which will have a slight lag/latency with respect to the other monitors.
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I just purchased the Anker Apex A8397 for my Razer Blade 15 Advanced (TB4) & BenQ 4K Triple Display; it is not holding up well. Screens randomly flicker or turn off for a considerable amount of time. Sometimes the displays just go haywire. All hardware is installed correctly to the best of my knowledge. I’ve lowered the refresh rates to 30hz on the two 32 inch screens (the third is 27 inches), and haven’t had an issue yet, besides the fact that the performance isn’t great. Anyone have any recommendations or feedback? I have no problem returning this thing and buying whatever I have to.
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Anthony, I would start by reaching out to Anker’s support folks to see if a firmware update is available. Most of these docks are almost identical inside – so it’s likely that other docks would have issues as well.
What cables/adapters are you using with the BenQ monitors? Perhaps swapping out one cable/adapter set for a premium brand would be a good test. Wherever possible, choose DisplayPort instead of HDMI.
Please see:
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Thanks, Dan. I’ve done countless hours of research on this that i don’t have time for and I was really hoping you could point me in the right direction…
I’m going to sell these BenQ’s. since my last post I’ve decided the cleanest setup is to run the two 32 inch displays with the Aanker docking docking station (which i’m not a fan of…want to return) at 60hz. The thing is I’m very particular on how I need my work setup; need to have outlook, teams, and two browsers need to be up at all times. The issue is having two browsers side-by-side on one screen isn’t wide enough to display everything i need to see without zooming so far out that it hurts my eyes. Also, I want 120hz monitors because it’s smoother to work on. I thought the solution would be easy, to buy two 34 inch, or even two 38 inch curved monitors (4k, 120hz that have HDMI 2.1). But what I don’t know is if the stream from laptop to docking station is TB4, and the two streams from docking station to monitors is HDMI 2.1…will it be able to power two monitors of this size without sacrificing refresh rate or resolution? Can HDMI 2.1 even power two 34 inch 4K monitors at 120hz?
There’s so many variables and it’s a lot to comprehend when you’re learning all of this on the fly. I know this is very convoluted, so I guess ultimately what I’m asking is: if i was to start from scratch and buy new monitors & docking station; what products should I purchase to get a Dual Display 4K 120HZ setup w/ 34 or 38 inch monitors? Money is not a factor at this point, i dont’ care, i just want the perfect office setup so I can be as efficient as possible at work. Thank you in advance and sorry for the long post.
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Anthony, the money-is-no-object solution is to either use a Desktop PC, or an external Thunderbolt GPU box/hub along with your Thunderbolt-enabled laptop. See https://egpu.io/best-egpu-buyers-guide/.
Either approach will let you do 2x 4K120 as long as the underlying discrete NVIDIA or AMD GPU supports it. If your laptop is AMD-based, get an AMD GPU. If your laptop has an NVIDIA GPU, get NVIDIA. If your laptop only has Intel HD/UHD/ XE GPU, then you can go either way, I do not recommend mixing -and-matching AMD+NVIDIA as you sometimes run into driver software issues.
BTW good discrete GPUs are really hard to get these days so when you find it in stock, go for it. Here is an all-in-one package you could do that offers tremendous performance: https://amzn.to/3sGjn4K
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Thank you so much, Dan, you are a life saver. Follow up questions regarding the GIGABYTE AORUS RTX 3080:
-What is the max refresh rate it could run two 4k monitors?
-Could it run three 4k Monitors at 120hz (or more)?
-Is there any need for a docking station if I purchase this? I run these monitors with a closed lid laptop, and the biggest issue I’ve been running into is not being able to wake the monitors up from hibernation consistently.
Thanks again!
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Anthony,
I believe you could do 2x 4K144 or 165Hz and probably 3x 4K120 alongside your laptop screen.
No docking station like the Anker is needed since the eGPU box has extra ports like Ethernet and USB. Just depends on how many extra ports you need.
Do you already have your monitors? If not, you might want to look into 1440p – you’ll be able to get much higher quality and value. At typical viewing distances, the extra pixels on 4K screens are squandered by auto scaling built into Windows and Linux anyway. The number of pixels are the least important part of a monitor but easier number to promote in advertising. I would consider something like a 5120×1440 ultrawide monitor instead. Without the bezel in between screens you can get way more efficient at organizing your applications especially with proper window management software like Microsoft PowerToys I’ve learned that using the bezel to organize your apps is a stupid crutch for poor software. Luckily, that’s easily fixed with powertoys.
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Thanks, Dan. So I need I have a home office and I’m buying monitor for my work office. At work I have nothing yet so I’m ordering the Samsung Odyssey G9 49″ ( https://www.costco.com/samsung-odyssey-49%22-class-dual-qhd-curved-gaming-monitor.product.100833503.html ) for when I’m at work.
My setup at home is much more important to me and I currently have two 32″ BenQ Thunderbolt 3 PD3200u monitors, which are high quality, but I like a higher refresh rate than 60 even for office work. The biggest issue with the two 32″s is that for my specific setup i need it a bit wider. I currently have 56″ of screen width so 49″ won’t cut it. The solution is two curved monitors, and I’m open to 38″ 36″ or 36;” & at least 120hz. If you have any recommendations I’m all ears! Also, do you think I should be limiting myself to Thunderbolt monitors? I bought into the hype and got a TB4 laptop, TB4 Dock, TB3 Monitors (which were always out of stock and hard to require), and to be honest I’m not super thrilled with some of the glitchiness with it. If not TB monitors, should I purchase some HDMI 2.1 monitors or just stick with DisplayPort? I really was hoping DP 2.0 would be out by now.
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Anthony, I would stick with DisplayPort monitors. And if you want to prioritize high refresh rates and quality, I would go with a 1440p panel for sure. In the 32″ size with the same or better color/brightness/quality as your BenQ monitors, there isn’t a huge variety available in the >$1000 consumer market. But perhaps one of these fits the bill?
1440p Asus ProArt: https://amzn.to/3HWzzoM
4K Asus gaming: https://amzn.to/3BqxG0Z
4K MSI gaming: https://amzn.to/3rUiRAU
The two 4K monitors are more catered to a gaming audience but they have really good color/clarity/brightness. But I would probably go with the lower resolution Asus ProArt monitor. My current monitor is an older Asus 1440p 32″ model (non ProArt) and I couldn’t be happier with it. I switched away from a similarly sized 4K monitor a few years ago.
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Thanks, Dan, it took me a while to finally realize that resolution was least important out of all the specs. As for those monitors, they’re great, but 32″ is actually too small since I’m sticking with the dual display. I I think I need dual 36 or 38 inch curved. The bezel will be right in front of my face but it’s not the end of the world. I believe LG has a nice 38″ curved if I’m not mistaken?
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Oh in the 38″ size, the LG Ultragear is probably the way to go. https://amzn.to/3I4rhev
I think Dell and Acer have screens based on the same physical LG panel just with different levels of gamer LED stuff and extra USB ports on the back.
If you get this all setup, you must share a photo because this is gonna be one heck of a rig!
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Dan, I definitely will be posting pictures when I finalize and order. The LG you showed me I’ve had my eye on for a while. What do you think about this TB3 LG? https://www.amazon.com/LG-38WN95C-W-Inch-Curved-Connectivity/dp/B0892MHG9H/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3S23J3GZIQP7A&keywords=thunderbolt+ultrawide+monitor&qid=1645195339&sprefix=thunderbolt+ultrawide+monitor%2Caps%2C85&sr=8-5
My original goal was to go TB everything, or is there no reason for this?
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Oh I think the TB3 version of that monitor will be just fine. But if you’re already planning to use a dock or eGPU, it won’t be helpful as you’ll probably end up using DisplayPort anyway.
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So I went through the same thought process and realized I don’t even need an eGPU if I get two TB3 monitors. I’m just not sure if I can wake the laptop with the lid closed without a dock. What do you think?
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To clarify, I can just daisy chain the two monitors straight from the Razer Laptop that has a GeForce 3080
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You could try that but you better double-check that the Razer can drive two monitors at that high a resolution/refresh rate directly from the single TB port. I suspect the second monitor will be stuck at 60Hz. If the Razer also has a separate HDMI port, put the second monitor on that for full refresh rate.
This is where the eGPU comes in for that slick single-cable-to-the-laptop solution.
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Hello Dan,
This is a great resource – I went a bit off piste and got the Fujitsu Thunderbolt 4 dock – it is kinda working well with the Dell Latitude 9420 (Windows 11) and two FHD monitors, but, unless the dock is specifically designed for Fujitsu laptops, there seems to be ethernet port and USB driver issues as they are coming up in the Device Manager with warnings. I can’t seem to find any supporting files or details on the Fujitsu site. I am thinking of trying another dock though.
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I fixed it! Laptop just needed a reboot to fix the USB non-responsiveness, but more importantly, the ethernet network driver for Windows is here:
https://support.ts.fujitsu.com/IndexDownload.asp?Softwareguid=287B16A2-C46D-4B33-8683-0F566A852A96
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For CE-Link TB4-HUB01 , PD should be 60W , not 85W , please check their description in detail
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Thanks – updated along with the re-brands of this hub.
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Dan, I definitely will be posting pictures when I finalize and order. The LG you showed me I’ve had my eye on for a while. What do you think about this TB3 LG? https://www.amazon.com/LG-38WN95C-W-Inch-Curved-Connectivity/dp/B0892MHG9H/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3S23J3GZIQP7A&keywords=thunderbolt+ultrawide+monitor&qid=1645195339&sprefix=thunderbolt+ultrawide+monitor%2Caps%2C85&sr=8-5
My original goal was to go TB everything, or is there no reason for this?
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Thanks for this article, very helpful!
I already have CalDigit Element Hub and I’m very happy using it with MBP 14″. Currently my TB downstream ports are occupied by:
– External NVMe M2 disk enclosure (TB3)
– 4K60 Dell U2720Q monitor (USB-C cable, Alt Mode DP 1.4 I believe)
– 1 Gigabit Ethernet Adapter (USB-C 3.0)
Four USB-A ports are occupied by low bandwidth accessories such as a webcam, mouse dongle, external HDD disk, etc.
So most of the TB uplink bandwidth is taken by external NVMe disk, that reaches transfer above 2500 MB/s, but in practice is used when I edit 4K videos (rarely).
I’m eyeing for replacing 1 Gigabit Ethernet adapter with Sabrent 10 Gigabit TB3 adapter. Is it a PCIe device, such as an NVMe disk?
I wonder – and this is my question – what happens with TB bandwidth then.
Will the CalDigit Hub somehow dynamically assign TB lanes to either NVMe disk and to 10GBE adapter?
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I have not used 10GBE, but my understanding is that the TB4 controller will split out the available bandwidth intelligently. Running and SSD and 10GBE together ought to be OK. Adding an EGPU to the mix might impact performance quite a bit.
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One of the videos claimed that budget friendly sub $100 tb hubs are coming.
Could anyone confirm or deny this?
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Thanks for this great list, it’s exactly what I’ve been looking for. In return, I’ll offer you the result of a couple of days worth of research into the details of USB & Thunderbolt: https://stderr.nl/Blog/Hardware/Thunderbolt/TechnologyOverview.html
While looking for a new dock, I got completely lost in all the marketing speak, so I dug in to figure out how the actual underlying technologies work, and what possibilities and limitations follow from that. Because it was so much, I decided to keep extensive notes, which I’ve published on my blog as linked above. I think my post would nicely complement both of your posts (about TB4 and USB-C docks), maybe you could include a link?
In any case, now I understand things better, my next step is to actually select a dock to buy, and your list is exactly what I need (yay for including the front/rear host port entry, that already trims down most of them) to quickly go through available options and come up with a shortlist to look at more closely. So thanks again!
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Good summary. This stuff is confusing for sure.
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What happens when you plug in a TB4 hub in a Linux or windows PC with a TB3 controller (Alpine ridge or titan ridge)?
Can you use all three downstream USB-C ports on the hub as Thunderbolt ports at the same time on those older TB3 hosts? (With a TB SSD, a TB 10gbit adapter and a TB dock for example)
Or is that functionality limited to TB4 host devices?
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Could you pleas help me to understand your table? I’m looking for a hub/dock, that makes it possible to connect an USB-C monitor (I think in USB-C Alt Mode DP). Is it visible in your table which ones support this?
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Hi Bernhard,
All of these docks will work with USB-C displays via the downstream TB4 ports. The only catch here is that if you connect monitors to all the DP and HDMI ports, the remaining TB4 port(s) may no longer do video – the docks will limit the total number of screens that will actually connect. You need to read the fine print from the manufacturer to determine which connectors can be used in tandem.
Do keep in mind that you can connect USB-C monitors to HDMI and DP with reverse/bi-directional cables. See: https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2020/05/10/bi-directional-usbc-dp-cables/
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I fact I don’t need any HDMI and DP ports, just the “forwarding” of USB-C Alt DP Mode (incl sound) to the USB-C Monitor. For example the “Lenovo ThinkPad Hybrid USB-C with USB-A Dock” (not in this list) is not able to do that.
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One small point of clarification on the list above; the Alogic Blaze TB4D3TB is not a rebranded Goodway device. Any similarities to Goodway products are likely due to the fact that the Blaze docking station draws on one of the Intel reference designs as do some of the Goodway products, presumably.
Keep up the good work Dan – great to have you as an independent source demystifying tech for people.
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Thanks Cameron, I’ll distinguish the models like the Alogic which are based on the reference PCB vs actual re-brands of Goodway’s whole design.
BTW if you’d like me to do a teardown/review of the Alogic, models, feel free to email me.
I love tearing these things open 🙂
Cheers,
Dan
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